The following contains spoilers for The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power Season 2, Episode 4, “Eldest,” now streaming on Prime Video.

The second season of Prime Video’s The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power introduced some new Middle-earth locations, including the dread-inducing Black Forest. It first appeared in the third episode of the season, “The Eagle and the Sceptre,” when Berek went searching for Isildur. One of the Orcs ominously said, “That there’s the Black Forest. Nothin’ comes outta there alive.” The Black Forest was a gloomy place in which the trees had no leaves, and it was constantly blanketed in a dense haze due to the smoke coming from the nearby Mount Doom. Within the Black Forest were such landmarks as a cave filled with giant spiders and a murky pond containing the corpse of a Númenórean soldier, calling to mind the Dead Marshes from The Lord of the Rings.

A Black Forest technically existed in J. R. R. Tolkien’s writings. In The Lord of the Rings novel, Treebeard lists several ancient names for his home, Fangorn Forest. One of them was Tauremorna, which came from the Elvish language of Quenya. It could be translated either as “Dark Forest” or “Black Forest.” However, it is unlikely that this was the same location as The Rings of Power. Isildur was in Mordor, but Fangorn was far further west, near the Misty Mountains. Fangorn used to be larger than it was in The Lord of the Rings, but even during the First Age, there was no indication that it came anywhere near Mordor; it mainly stretched westward towards the Shire. Nonetheless, the Black Forest was rooted in Tolkien’s lore.

The Black Forest Became a Terrifying The Lord of the Rings Location

When Berek first ran off to find Isildur, a map of the region appeared onscreen. Though it did not pinpoint Berek’s exact location, he seemed to be near the place that would eventually become Cirith Ungol, the only passageway through the Mountains of Shadow along Mordor’s western border. This explains the presence of giant spiders in the Black Forest, as Cirith Ungol was the location of Shelob’s Lair in The Lord of the Rings. Even the name Cirith Ungol meant “Cleft of the Spider” in the Elvish language of Sindarin. The area was not forested in The Lord of the Rings, but Mount Doom’s eruption was a recent event in The Rings of Power, so perhaps the heat and lack of sunlight will destroy the trees over time.

The Black Forest is another in a long list of dark, spooky woodlands in Middle-earth. Fangorn was the most famous example. Like the Black Forest, there was a rumor that none who entered it came out alive. This was because Treebeard and his fellow Ents fiercely guarded it against trespassers. Another similar location was Mirkwood, the sickly forest that surrounded the Woodland Realm from The Hobbit. Like the Black Forest, it was infested with giant spiders. These were the offspring of Shelob, and they were attracted to Mirkwood because of the evil energy that emanated from Sauron’s stronghold, Dol Guldur. Those who have read The Lord of the Rings novel will also be familiar with the Old Forest near the Shire, which used to be connected to Fangorn.

The Black Forest Might Have Been Older Than it Seemed

The Orcs’ dialogue implied that the Black Forest’s nasty reputation predated the creation of Mordor. Though The Rings of Power did not specify how much time passed between Mount Doom’s eruption and Berek’s discovery of Isildur, it seemed to be weeks at most, hardly enough time for the Orcs to come to such a conclusion about the Black Forest’s dangers themselves. Therefore, the Southlanders probably feared it even before the Orcs arrived. The existence of such a vile location could be another reason that the forces of evil chose Mordor as their new realm.

The forest in which The Rings of Power‘s Wildmen lived was not the Black Forest, but perhaps that was not always the case. In the episode “Eldest,” Winterbloom the Ent told Isildur and Arondir, “We have tended this forest since before the mountains rose and divided it.” This most likely referred to the White Mountains north of Pelargir, which would later divide the kingdoms of Rohan and Gondor, but it is also possible that this referred to the Mountains of Shadow. Maybe the Black Forest used to be part of the Wildmen’s forest but became separated over time.